Why I don't play Empyrion now

Discussion in 'FAQ & Feedback' started by runlykhel, Mar 7, 2020.

  1. runlykhel

    runlykhel Captain

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    Because I have the choice of leaving the game as is in concept, or turning off all of the added restrictions to the game to enjoy my playtime.
    After 2771hrs of play I no longer find EGS fun.

    Yes I can play creative and build stuff with all the restrictive parts turned off but, to what purpose are my creations useful for if in the back of my (pea sized) brain I know they won't be used, and I'm not playing the full game as intended.

    There are many games I've spent hundreds if not thousands of hours in that I no longer have any interest in because of added complexity or tediousness just to draw out the play time instead of actual game additions; EOL, ESO, to name a couple come to mind.

    Games I keep going back to, which equates to advising others to also play are SE, NMS, Ark (not counting their holiday weirdosity ;new word just made it up...lol).

    A game should be challenging to a level of choice at the beginning part of the game setup.
    A good way to do this is to have the setup menu reflect the choices in such a way not to intimidate the player; example would be in how the choices are explained.
    I know EGS is in alpha (still), but I would just like the developers to think of how they present the different play choices. CPU on/off, V&M on/off etc.

    Presentation of an Idea, product etc. is key to getting the right frame of mind to the potential listener/consumer.

    To some all this may sound hyperbolic but the mind set of someone going into a game really effects their whole rationale for the level of involvement, and amount of time and patience they are willing to invest.

    Example: Get strong enough to fight the big bad guy, vs crunch enough numbers and jump through so many hoops and not even see a big bad guy. ( this last is too close to real life and is not the reason I play video games).

    So nobody gets offended; these are only my opinions and thoughts I would like to relate to the developers and not attacking anyone elses opinions.:cool:
     
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  2. Germanicus

    Germanicus Rear Admiral

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    I understand your points, I concur that certain restrictions are Fun-Killers, i.e., the current Flight Model (Mass dictates max Speed-in Space)

    But can you tell me what your Play Style is? What of the current (by default turned OFF) Features are the most FUN Killing Elements ... for You?
     
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  3. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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    I do not play Impyrion either....

    Seriously now. I also got to the point while playing for the need of new content, enough to make me stick with the game. Imagine that I was among those in few alpha releases back who we requested POI respaning. Before that if you had destroyed the core of a drone base for example the POI would remain as ruins on the planet. The developers listened to the community request and implemented the feature. Now we have respawn of POIs a feature that I do not remember I have encountered in other games at all. I am not talking about just enemies but entire buildings.

    Other than that, I do mine Gold Ore, from every new game I play, converting it to credits that I consider semething like a high score. I accumulate from every game those cards and transfer them to a creative one (dues to stacks) among with fuel pentaxid and other stuff I mine and convert compressing the minerals.

    You may also find useful the internal score rate of kills and deaths by pressing the right sortcut key to make it appear on screen.
     
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  4. runlykhel

    runlykhel Captain

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    Thanks didn't even Spark on the "I"...lol (changed)
     
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  5. runlykhel

    runlykhel Captain

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    Yes that mass speed restriction is beyond silly and adds another restriction to the game.

    Play style is to start in SP survival with nothing but starting equipment (typically the pod), no tutorial for obvious reasons, gather what I need to build temp base, ship, etc. Exploring the planet, taking over POIs to get more, or converting it to my use. Fly to space, explore more and build a pretend business, empire etc.

    That in my opinion is the basic outline of the game, with the PVP side adding more interacting type of fun which, because of caustic griefers, I now avoid like the plague.

    The item handling menu system is the most convoluted of any game I have played, and doesn't make much sense when used with V&M, "I can't carry that because it's too heavy, oh wait let me turn on my magic weight carry bar". Uumm...and I need that extra restriction because?

    I could go on but most of what I would say has already been said in other posts here...I do hope none of those players ended up with rabies from the attacks of the fanboys lol.

    When I do play Empyrion (notice the "E" lol) I first go into the config file and change reload times and rates of fire to be more realistic on some of the weapons, If my shotgun during a bird hunt told me to "wait" while it took a nap before I could shoot again it would find itself at the bottom of the swamp, I turn off CPU, V&M, and after gathering medical plants that don't help much (for as long as it takes to appease my guilt for cheating) I then magically find a store of the three main healing packs, to counter the ramped up disease/injury part of the game (if I wanted to play medic I would play a doctor game) diseases should also have an on/off button(not injuries).

    TLDR: SP survival, pod entrance, adjust reload and rof of certain weapons in config, cpu & vm off, and to counter the diseases (not injuries) I cheat in heath packs.
     
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  6. Fractalite

    Fractalite Rear Admiral

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    I gotta be honest with you, since you are declaring you change the game to these settings each time; this does not really sound like any fun either? So, are you sure the problem is not Eleon but you?

    My intention is not to attack nor to be antagonistic, but more to invite honesty. You cited these games:

    And those games can have enormous repercussions to how you interact with certain NPC's(my reference to your frustrations with the diseases.) Plus space engineers is MUCH more demanding with respect to it's physics than Empyrion so your point about disliking M/V is a little silly.This is still a very simplistic game compared with others.

    I whole-heartily support your frustrations about the interface for M/V - I do not use it either. But now that I have tried to sort through the CPU system, you CANNOT say the same thing about it. That interface could use a touch more spread-out info, but the principle is fine. As I stated here: https://empyriononline.com/threads/some-simple-feedback-on-cpu.92267/page-3#post-387263 it is not really that big a deal? plus, if they change the interface or invent other game systems I will happily turn on M/V because I do not mind the challenge of building to weight or volume? I mean, you claim you enjoy SE and you are already doing that in a more exacting system?

    Plus, you said: "After 2771hrs" in the OP(which I believe, because Empyrion is awesome.) Sooooo, how do you have time to play the other games?

    Also, continuing with the theme of honesty, you said:

    and then followed up a few posts later with:

    So now you are just being mean.

    *sigh*

    This post is not really feedback. It should have been posted in the "off topic" area of the forums. You are more than free to move on from Empyrion, but I would encourage you to maybe take a break and come back in a few months. I did; I stopped playing last September and came back in February and it was fine.
     
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  7. runlykhel

    runlykhel Captain

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    You're entitled to your assumptions and interpretations of what I wrote. As I've stated many times on this forum my communication skills are lacking so I take some of the responsibility for your interpretations. But, I didn't attack anyone; did you see a name or response to another post? Mean? I don't think so. And I apologize if I've hurt your feelings.

    In response to your inquiry about how do I have so much time to put so many hours into my games, I'm retired and video games are something I can still do.

    My post is relevant to feedback I was trying, obviously not very well, to bring to the attention of the developers that when starting up a game, a menu of some type that could easily be ticked off to set up the type of game play one would desire might alleviate some of the negatives some new players find when they can't do what the game is advertised as without a long term investment in very tedious early game play. Not everyone can or feels comfortable about messing with config files etc.

    My choices of how to play the game is what's kept me around as long as it did; the fun died every time I tried to play the way it seemed meant to be played, the game just got very tedious.

    And negative feedback is just as important as positive.:)

    Please "a theme of honesty", now who is being mean?:rolleyes:
     
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  8. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    The game is meant to be played the way you want to play it, whether that includes things like hunger and environmental impacts, mass/volume, cpu, weapon limits, stack size increases, solar panel buffs, harder or easier enemies, base attacks, even what scenario you use.
    Just because a mechanic is there, doesn't mean you have to enable it to play Empyrion "the way it's meant to be played." :D

    I got Empyrion in Alpha 6 and played it with my brother and some of our friends. It was a lot of fun. Alpha 7 came out and we played that too, starting on the new snow planet of Sienna which was a LOT of fun. Then the scenario Universal Voodoo 3 came out with fifty planets to explore and we had a lot of fun there! Then the author of Universal Voodoo took all his stuff off the workshop without warning and with alpha 8 on the horizon there wasn't any indication that anyone was working on a similar scenario.

    So I decided to learn the new random generator to create a solar system my brother and I could explore together, because I wanted to play on a map with a hundred planets instead of a dozen. I wanted new types of planets, new POIs, new dangers. So I created Project Eden for us. Once I worked on it some more I shared it on the workshop and now a lot of other people enjoy it too. It's certainly not for everyone, but it's the way I wanted to play Empyrion.

    The same can be said for Space Engineers. There are a LOT of settings there that you can customize, and mods add a whole new level to the type of game you can play. Playing Space Engineers "as it's meant to be played" means setting things up the way you want. :D

    Mass/volume, CPU, are both off by default. That already reduces a lot of the "tedium" of the early game. Personally, I love those options, so I always turn them on, but others don't so they can leave them disabled.
    Different scenarios can fill in the other types of game play. There are scenarios where you start with literally nothing and die every 5 minutes on the easiest planet. There are scenarios that give you a head start with a capital ship right at the beginning. And there's everything in between. The main limitation isn't even game mechanics yet, it's the time needed to create these scenarios, and I can understand the developers spending time on adding the core mechanics first before they start adding a bunch of new planets and scenarios and such.

    Until then, we the players can make our own however we see fit. :D
     
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  9. runlykhel

    runlykhel Captain

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    As usual I've not expressed myself clearly, again, lol (could be all the nerdy occupations over the years, too many to list nose in tech manuals etc.)

    You are absolutely correct about all you've said, and except for making things like Eden (very good by the way) I do all of what you say.

    I was just trying to get across that Empyrion would benefit for new players to have a setup menu such as SE or others for the very phycological effect (feeling) that, yes that is how I want to play, just like the feeling you get from SE and other game setups.

    Hhmm in retrospect that's how I probably should have said it, instead of overthinking the Idea...lol:rolleyes:

    Anyway thanks for responding.:)
     
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  10. fireborn

    fireborn Ensign

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    I prefer playing with some restrictions on.

    If you dont like them shut them off. Its a option.

    I would certainly hope my enjoyment of the game is not hindered just so people can shove their ship designs in my face and feel good about themselves because i downloaded it. No thanks.
    Im sure you worked hard on it and stuff but this topic seems really selfish to me.
     
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  11. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Sorry I am still confused. Space Engineers literally has several pages of options and sliders, something like 30 of them. Are you asking for Empyrion to have something similar? A new player wouldn't know what most of the options in Space Engineers do.
     
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  12. runlykhel

    runlykhel Captain

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    Actually SE has one long page and the most of the choices are very well explained and easily checked off, example would be that my grandchildren have no problem setting up SE or Ark to play, but avoid EGS. It is not just me, I'm trying to bring attention to how the choices of EGS are presented and am astounded by how many feathers I ruffled with such a simple thing.:confused:

    Edit: after rereading all the post on this thread I've come to realize that 1) some comment without really reading all the comments and respond in a knee jerk type of reaction, or 2) just turn defensive and want absolute proof of an opinion (love to see that). or 3) just fan boy the whole idea of having a different opinion about how the game is presented or played and feel threatened by other opinions.

    Wow...even though this forum is not as caustic as eve on line the passive aggression here is to much like invading a small family circle with an outside idea.

    My only hope for this game is that the developers realize not to take too serious the small aggressive and verbose communities' opinion and actually make the game they want.

    Thank you to the ones that responded civilly and for the others I'll not be back so don't feel threatened.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  13. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    No one is being hostile with you, they just disagree with you, as do I.

    Since you are now leaving (and that's fine) I'll post this for the benefit of anyone else reading this thread:

    Space Engineer's new game starting screen presents you with the option of about a dozen starting scenarios:
    20200307222309_1.jpg

    20200307222318_1.jpg

    The type that I prefer that generates the entire star system, is on the Custom Game tab hidden all the way at the bottom. Contrast this with Empyrion where you click New Game > Singleplayer > Survival and you're good to go.

    Space Engineers has multiple pages of game options, many of them a new player won't understand:
    20200307222321_1.jpg

    20200307222323_1.jpg
    (And that's not even showing all of them)


    Compare this to Empyrion where all the settings are shown on a single page.
    Don't get me wrong, I think Empyrion could use some more settings here, but I disagree that Space Engineers is easier to configure for a new player. It's not.

    And of course the original poster took offense instead of trying to clarify what he had meant. Maybe he meant that he wished Empyrion had as many options as Space Engineers? I don't know.
     
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  14. Darak

    Darak Lieutenant

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    Adding restrictions to a game is always going to be divisive because you are removing freedoms your players have been enjoying; the first time they meet a new limitation it's always going to feel bad. I discovered Empyrion recently, compared to most, and I've always been playing with m&v on (and, recently, CPU too). Those features are far from being perfectly balanced, but I genuinely enjoy the game that way. They make me build small, make the game's progression curve longer, resource runs are more interesting, etc. What I'm trying to say is, when faced with a new game mechanic which on first sight seems to be clashing with your playstyle, try to face the situation with an open mind and approach the game like a fresh one. You may find the reason why the restrictions are there, and you may end up enjoying the new game more, and not less.
     
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  15. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    You got that right. As a friendly advice : when a game generates that kind of defensive reactions from its handful of remaining hyperactive community members... just avoid the place and do something else for a while. Keep in mind that maybe hundreds of other less "involved" players read the forums without interacting, knowing how things go about in here.

    Learning the advanced features of Blender 2.82 nowadays. Quite fun, almost as tedious as learning Empyrion for a newcomer, plus you can build a lot more... :p
     
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  16. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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    @Darak A very good point of view.
     
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  17. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    While it's fun to see brand new players trying to teach ice-age-old concepts like "allergy to novelty" to old timers, it's very unlikely to get its point across if it doesn't take into account the experience of other players.

    It is in fact such a common meme that people often forget that novelty is not always "progress", sometimes it causes a device or system to underperform relatively to prior to the so-called "advancement" of state. And that is the whole point of enjoyment versus work in a game : each player has its own tolerance limit to "changes" that bring nothing new to his/ her experience, or that make the experience even more grindy. That is the point of @runlykhel's first post up here, and I doubt he's unaware of what usual reactions to "novelty" are and that he's diving into madness over a few changes.

    There is also the opposite concept : some people tend to see all novelty as "beneficial" regardless of the final state of the product. Common sense dictates that these people have unreliable opinions obscured by their feelings : the can't be objective because they voluntarily blinded themselves for all the negative aspects of the subject. Games, like everything else, also have "negative" aspects, both objective and subjective. The topic is not about teaching others how to enjoy something they have learned to dislike through time and experimentation : that is a pure waste of time.

    As you mentioned clearly in your post : you started playing not long ago. Let's see how your "opinion" modulates through time...
     
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    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  18. Fractalite

    Fractalite Rear Admiral

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    Kass, bud, no. This forum has always had members that have tried to question this kind of trolling drivel. This absurdly obtuse discription makes the Empyrion Forums sound like most of the players have moved on and the remaining players are like old crusty rotting zombies desperately scrambling about. At it's inception it was players like Liftpizzas, frigidman, and others. Right now, it's Ravien, Germanicus, Vermillion, and others(I usually do not comment on threads like these unless I spy deliberate fraudulence.) I know Frigidman and Lift will likely be in and out, but Eleon is a tiny team that is beset not only by larger game companies but the greater jackassery of the gamer community on the internet. It does need some help. Now, maybe Mister Run is not one of those people but has instead learned to speak its language, but when he says things like:

    and then Ravien can very patiently point out:

    This is frustrating and is not being real honest - hence my call for honesty and my willingness to dip my toes into this thread. That is deliberately misleading, and I intensely dislike liars. It would be one thing if he just did not have all the info and needed to back track(have needed to do that myself on occasion:D:rolleyes:) with a "oops, got that wrong."(or some variation) Instead, he doubled down.

    I am responding a little bit more assertively here because Ravien and I are NOT just "hyperactive community members" - we are actually trying to help contribute and dare I say it, do a pretty damn good job.

    You are so delightfully prickly and rude. I can always count on you being drawn to threads like this... like a maggot to a rotting corpse. You are so consistent it's almost charming.

    Also, I do not think Mr Darak was at all referring to "Allergy to Novelty" or trying to teach the old man a thing or two; I think he was trying to offer perspective and something of a detente. Hint: he was trying to address the entire community, not just the OP. So, although I know you are drawn to the conflict, no need to fan the flames here.
     
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  19. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    This would have been better if the original poster explained their ideas with some MS paint mockups or examples from other games for the difficulty options menu so we could see what he wanted changed in Empyrion's difficulty menu.
    After all, he did say this:

    Then when asked to clarify his stance, he said this was too hostile and he left the conversation. I don't see any point continuing this thread because unless the original poster comes back to actually explain what they meant, the rest of us can only make vague guesses.
     
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  20. Myrmidon

    Myrmidon Rear Admiral

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    I think if we keep on this thread we will end up chaseing our tails. It is natural for a human beeing to "get burned" doing the same thing over and over (and some times believing things will change because of doing so). Others sooner others later. All can take a small or a big hiatus. Stop and smell that red flower, yada yada yada. Our reactions to situations like this also defines us as human beings too. It even forms a short of "personal signature" if I may say. I wish the best choices to be made by the OP and the rest of the players, regarding EGS. :)


    PS I know trying to express personal points of view in foreing language might end to confusion, missunderstanding and/or cause laughter, but here you have it. Jus tenjoy your life by either playing the game or not.
     
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