Zirax drone base extremely overpowered

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sneedy, Jul 19, 2020.

  1. Booyaah

    Booyaah Captain

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    Imagine you are on a bike with a helmet. You fall off, land on your head, the helmet absorbs most of the blunt impact but your head still hurts as it absorbed some of the impact, even though your head did not actually touch the ground
     
    #41
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  2. Khazul

    Khazul Rear Admiral

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    Not a good analogy - head and helmet are not anchored to anything useful nor have adequate mass relative to body and bike and strength of neck.

    Perhaps do some reading up on on modern tank armor and common causes oif injury death in the case of a direct strike with various weapon types.

    Even with the nasty hack that eleon have done, had they spent a couple of minutes of consideration, they might have thought to apply some kind of inverse square law to the damage. Still a nasty hack but a much better compromise.
     
    #42
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
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  3. Flawedspirit

    Flawedspirit Ensign

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    So I've noticed the bug people mentioned about how the Zirax lasers do 650 damage to shields instead of the 65 they're supposed to. So, my question is: can I patch it on my end for my own game? Are damage values for weapons still hardcoded or did they move them into a config file? Even if its in the database I can still change it because the game's DB is just a simple SQLite file.
     
    #43
  4. Orclover

    Orclover Lieutenant

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    If ever there was a mod that needed to be made, that would be it.
     
    #44
  5. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Yes a config.ecf file can fix this until it's updated.
     
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  6. ButchyBear

    ButchyBear Ensign

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    I hear you. I created a special HV for attacking bases. But those with shields: it don't work well at all (two plasma, one artillery gun). Best solution I found was to use another HV to drill up to the base, get out, and use explosives. Usually takes like 8 of them to break the base shields. From t here I drive back and return with my SV to take out the base turrets. And my tanky HV? Pretty much useless. They kinda need to give HV's better shields compared to SVs. That would make tanks viable versus bases.
     
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  7. vfrhawk

    vfrhawk Ensign

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    Could you point a newb to the item and value in the ecf file please? I've looked and understand the structure and usage, but there's a lot of possibilities so if someone who knows the structure could help point me to the right item to change that'd be appreciated.

    Oh, and does this have to be done on every client in MP? I don't host our MP game, so if there's a separate server version where's that located?
     
    #47
  8. Spoon

    Spoon Captain

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    Welcome to the forum mate.
    The laser turrets were fixed on Alpha 12.3... So I've read.
     
    #48
  9. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    "Damage" is in the "ammo" used by weapons ( ItemsConfig.ecf). When looking at a weapon's config, the AmmoType is specified.

    For this laser doing 650 damage, it's at line 5195 and following:

    { +Item Id: 164, Name: TurretEnemyLaserCharge
    Meshfile: Entities/Items/Weapons/Projectiles/LaserShotRedAlien
    DropMeshfile: Entities/Misc/BagSmallPrefab
    Material: metalweapon
    AllowPlacingAt: "Base,MS", display: false
    HoldType: 0
    StackSize: 1000
    Canhold: false
    ShowUser: No
    Mass: 1, type: float, display: true, formatter: Kilogram
    Volume: 1.5, type: float, display: true, formatter: Liter
    Info: bkiAmmoExplosive, display: true
    Category: Weapons/Items
    { Child 0
    Class: Projectile
    Damage: 650, display: true # new: because we removed explosion
    BlastParticleIndex: 0
    # BlastRadius: 3
    # BlastDamage: 200
    Speed: 750
    Range: 650
    SpeedSpace: 810
    RangeSpace: 875
    Ballistic: false

    --------------------------------------------

    I'm not sure about multiplayer, but I think the file can be modified on the server and clients will all use these values. Someone can correct me here if that's not right.
     
    #49
  10. vfrhawk

    vfrhawk Ensign

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    Thanks guys. Yes, my version is already set to 65 so indeed appears to be fixed in 12.3.
     
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  11. Grand Pa

    Grand Pa Lieutenant

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    Got to this point yesterday and I wondred, why I've had no chance against the drone base even when I attacked it with the Albatros CV Blueprint.
    So I took a look at the ItemsConfig.ecf and the value was still at 650 in V 1.1. Changed it now by myselfe and will report, if it has helped.
     
    #51
  12. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    The problem was fixed by the end of A12.
    The issue wasn't the damage, it was the shield modifier.
     
    #52
  13. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    I still prefer laying siege to things like this from Underground. A few explosives placed in clusters brings those shields down pretty quick, and underground, all the alien plasma turrets in the galaxy can't hit you.
     
    #53
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  14. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    Hold a block of metal in your hand. Rest your hand on a solid surface. Hit the block of metal with a hammer. Did you feel the impact? That block is a solid object, so why didn't it block the transmission of kinetic energy through the block and into your hand (hopefully not too badly smashed from the impact).*

    * Don't actually try this, you'll just hurt yourself, blame me, then I'll have blame you for not having common sense, there will be lots of hurt feelings (yours, not mine, I have no feelings), and at least one meme will born of it, and there are enough of those online already. :)
     
    #54
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  15. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Blast damage going through blocks is probably due to technical reasons, not game balance or realism.
     
    #55
  16. Brimstone

    Brimstone Rear Admiral

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    The correct analogy in vanilla Empyrion terms would be followed by hitting your hand with the hammer directly

    As much as hitting the metal in your hand with the hammer may hurt, the impact is still attenuated. That doesn't happen in vanilla.
     
    #56
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  17. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

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    I've been experimenting with CV weapons against drone bases and such. I went after one on a starter planet's moon with some plasma and laser turrets, as well as fixed lasers. The ship had a tier 2 shield and middling maneuverability, but I didn't bother dodging. I wanted to see what happened in a straight-up fist fight.

    First thing that happened was both shields basically evaporated. The second was chunks of my very tightly tuned and suddenly very fragile-feeling CV being blown away as I put volley after volley into a comparatively oblivious slab of combat steel. I managed to take the turrets out before the damage became too severe to fly home. It's not fun standing up from the helm and seeing the rest of the bridge in ruins. If there had been secondary defense POIs, I'd have been blown out of the sky.

    Drone bases tend to be either trivial when you use cheese stratagems or nigh impossible when attacking directly. This was the first time the fight seemed close to even. If the consensus does become that drone bases are overpowered, the removal of CV weapon restrictions should be considered as part of the solution.
     
    #57
  18. Brimstone

    Brimstone Rear Admiral

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    The argument against CV weapons planetside evaporated when shields were introduced
     
    #58
  19. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    If the metal block has enough mass the hand will feel almost nothing, because the kinetic energy is transferred to the block as heat + sound + vibrations in the material - very little can be transferred to the hand. Try this : put your hand under 2 x 45 kg Olympic weight plates, and hit the top plate with a hammer.

    Those two are not mutually exclusive. ;)
     
    #59
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  20. Escarli

    Escarli Rear Admiral

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    @The Big Brzezinski Which drone base was it, also was it on the starter planet or elsewhere in the galaxy?
     
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