Feedback Required A critical examination of the tutorial by new player.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ephoie, Aug 14, 2020.

  1. Ephoie

    Ephoie Captain

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    Hey, how goes?

    I came across this Australian, The Scarlet Seeker, doing gaming vids, and he did a series on Empyrion: the tutorial.

    His perspective as a first time player is critical as it demonstrates where the game is lacking and presents opportunities for the game to improve and grow its playerbase. The initial interaction between the player and the game have to be simple, well explained, with a more intuitive UI. This will help bring them into the gameplay style early on.

    I invite you to watch the full series, but I posted the last vid below, as it highlights some of the more interesting things that he found challenging about the game. He is not alone. I have experienced many of the same gripes in playing, and heard many of the same criticisms from other players and forum members.

     
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  2. Ephoie

    Ephoie Captain

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  3. Pantera

    Pantera Administrator Staff Member

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  4. Ephoie

    Ephoie Captain

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    Thanks @Pantera
    I think it's a good idea to take some time to review these criticisms constructively with the team @EleonGameStudios .
     
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  5. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    I ve already made some changes to the Tutorial in terms of content and missions details as far as I could. The rest will to be discussed on the topic how the game forwards info to the player.
     
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  6. SylenThunder

    SylenThunder Captain

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    One gripe I've heard a lot of is that the tutorial tells you do do something, or make something, but is extremely unclear as to how you are supposed to achieve what the next step requires to be done.
     
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  7. Kassonnade

    Kassonnade Rear Admiral

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    Exactly. Especially after the base is captured and the player is sent to Polaris. Then all instructions are minimal, and it relies on players having already acquired "automatisms" and knowing what to do in what order.
     
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  8. Love Is Flash

    Love Is Flash Captain

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    Today I introduced another friend to our wonderful ̶s̶e̶c̶t̶ game:D. And I told him - Bufo, go do quests. He started the tutorial and after 3 minutes he said - Flash, you better explain to me what's what and I won't spend 10 hours on this ...
     
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  9. Mikiy

    Mikiy Lieutenant

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    That episode was rather painful to watch. Some of that was his fault tho, like he should know how to get a new survival tool for mining with the survival/suit constructor.. he made it in episode 1 and seemingly just forgot about it.

    But can we really expect a game to teach the same lesson twice, wouldn't that be a bit repetitive?
    Well i think the answer is yes and no. The game just can't really teach the same thing again, but if he has a mission to mine ore (like he had), nothing stops the game to drop some hint on him how to do that in the description field of the mission in the pda, so far that description box has been mostly useless.. so why not say something like this in there:

    "Use your personal scanner from the hotbar to find and identify resource nodes, then use a drill or the survival tool (remember you can always make a new survival tool with the survival constructor, top right corner of your inventory) to mine the ore. Be mindful to not mine yourself into a hole you may have trouble escaping from, you can also use your personal drone (F5) for mining."

    Then there was the bit with the power button on the survival constructor.. i saw instantly that it was red, was painful to watch him not figure this out for a while. Hes right about the intuitiveness there tho, putting the word "Power" over that button would maybe help some there. Could also put some flashing box around it when its turned off WHILE the tutorial runs so even distracted streamers notice it.
     
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  10. The Big Brzezinski

    The Big Brzezinski Captain

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    I happened to see something similar last Monday;

    At least it wasn't yet another funeral for Mass Effect, I guess.

    I tend to think of tutorials, and education in general, should take a lesson from movies; keep the camera on the money. Empyrion has a big magnificent world that positively entices players to explore it. The tutorial should be focusing their attention on this, not interrupting it with a text crawl. Messages should be very brief asides to help facilitate the player's gawping at the game.


    Specific thoughts;

    -Constructor templates and inventory items need better descriptions. They should clearly communicate what they do and what they're for. This is especially true on the tech screen, where players will likely be either exploring what they can build or looking for a specific solution to a problem.

    -The demand that you stop exploring and pay attention to the text needs to go away. You know that popup that happens totally on its own near certain weird POIs on moons? That's perfect. A player needs to be told only a few things, and that POI message is the perfect template. They should popup the first time you walk next to a mineable rock, harvestable plant, gain a level, stuff like that. Described the function of whatever triggered the popup in one short sentence, and you've nailed it.

    -Start players with a survival tool in their first toolbar slot and a detector in their second. The functions of these two tools encompass just so much of the game, it makes sense to make them the first toys players get in their hands.
     
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  11. SylenThunder

    SylenThunder Captain

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    Speaking of popups....

    It would be really neat if they stayed on the screen for longer than 3 seconds. By the time you notice it, and look to where it is, 90% of the time it's gone already and you have no clue what it said. This needs to be longer, and probably adjustable on the client-side.
     
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  12. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    The info messages (at least in the Tutorial) have a display time of sometimes up to 120, 180 or more seconds... ;)
     
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  13. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    For some reason the Portable Constructor turns itself off for no reason as seen in the video. The fact that it even has an off switch is weird since it doesn't consume power for it to need to be turned off.
     
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  14. Inappropriate

    Inappropriate Captain

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    You can't cancel a job that is in progress. If you accidentally tell the constructor to build something and want to cancel it you have to first turn the constructor off. So it really does need the off switch. Or just allow in progress jobs to be canceled.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  15. lendarker

    lendarker Lieutenant

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    Generally, what I noticed about the quest dialog system, is that I would want three things:

    1. in single player, pause the damn game while dialogs are shown
    2. when dialogs run timed (like the mission logs from the Titan), make sure I don't lose any text if I don't look at the screen for a few seconds. Meaning: pause when the window is filled. Also, when two people are talking, let the dialog fill the window instead of clearing it for every line. Ideally, let the user confirm with a click that they have read the text (it already happens in some places, but not others, so be consistent here).
    3. all quest dialog/text/messages must be retrievable in the log for later review, or if I accidentally clicked too quickly and missed a screen of dialog. As it is, not all of it is saved there.
     
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  16. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, but the fact that it can and does turn itself off is a complete no-no.

    Additionally, the Player Inventory should always default to the Suit Constructor window instead of the Player Status window, since it's just a repeat of their HUD's information. The Constructor is more use and otherwise hidden behind a small, unintuitive button in the corner.
    That video is certifiable proof that the suit constructor being hidden in the way that it is is enough to make new players simply quit.
     
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  17. IndigoWyrd

    IndigoWyrd Rear Admiral

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    I can't say I've ever been a fan of videos like this, but I have to lead with: This guy doesn't read. If he did, he would have noticed the despawn timer on his backpack.

    I do agree, I'm not sure why the Portable Constructor has a power button either. Another great illustration of Failure to Read was making Energy Bars - the requisite number of plant protein (2) is shown in the list of items that can be made.

    All in all, a very badly done review.
     
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  18. SylenThunder

    SylenThunder Captain

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    Until you build your base and turn it on. The Zirax attacking message appears for all of maybe 3 seconds. This used to display for a period of maybe 5 seconds. It's never been long enough, and there are a plethora of other critical messages that appear on this horribly short-lived system. It's a fault that needs to be fixed, yet keeps being ignored.
    Even the developer of EAH attempted to add a feature that would allow server owners to adjust this, but it won't do anything due to the way the game code is written.

    Really not sure why you would have critical information messages with such a short timeout.
     
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  19. Ephoie

    Ephoie Captain

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    It is not the quality of the review I am aiming at here, as much as the interaction between a new player and the game's UI needing a more intuitive experience within it.

    The fact that the player was able to screw up the tutorial demonstrates some of the areas in which it is lacking, and the current methods of communication (text) are limited. In order to keep a wider variety of a player-base engaged with the game, certain aspects such as communication of tasks and goals need to be streamlined.


    My observations:


    The bike should not disappear for at least a week (realtime) or so..... none of this 20 min stuff......
    Same for Backpacks..... Provide an option in the game/server settings for a timer config for how long bags and bikes and boxes can stick around (in real-time minutes)after being dropped or placed..... where 0 (zero) equals off (bags, bikes, and boxes remain until picked up)

    Notifications and NPC dialogue shouldn't just disappear after the initial "pop-up"
    There should also be a record of all notifications and alerts, possibly kept in the chat tab, or the PDA log WITH TIMESTAMPS!!
    It would be nice to know when you received a notification/confirmation of a task/storyline

    Part of the PDA's functions should have the ability to teleport players from one spot to another location upon completion of tasks, to specific locations/coordinates/sectors.

    I have had more than a few situations where the logic this game employs loses all meaning or purpose, and reason just flies out the window.
    A portable constructor can be placed and left just about anywhere, without a pick-up timer and essentially have unlimited storage(I understand that the item is essentially a placeholder for a more polished version down the road, I'm sure until something is better designed).....
    In contrast though, don't you dare log-off before picking up your bicycle. Low and behold.... its gone, for whatever reason that will remain unclear. Or, god forbid you die while you were AFK for more than 20mins... and when you return, you come to find your bag has just mysteriously disappeared, again for reasons unknown.
    Ultimately, when I run into glaring issues, such as those mentioned above, and have invested my time into so much of this game, I am left wondering why I do this, , and become frustrated to the point that I just want to quit the game. and walk away.
     
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  20. ravien_ff

    ravien_ff Rear Admiral

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    Backpack despawn timer needs to be a server setting and should last much longer in single player.

    Base attack notice should stay on the screen the entire time your base is under attack and you are nearby (and make it a much better notice, that is obvious but also unobtrusive).

    Maybe something like this (but better, with a small animation).
    20200705202725_1.jpg

    And a similar one for space base defense.
     
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