A9 - NPC Faction Standing: too slow or too fast?

I find the current system sufficient. No issues with the Point system so far. Not always easy to notice what action triggers which reaction but after some drops of clanger ("Fettnäpfchen") you get the meaning of "Don't touch it" or "that are my crates and what's in it is not your concern!"

 

I think my only real dislike with the current values is the 'instantly drops to <level>' (Trigger level)
It is far too easy to do something to warrant this to trigger by accident.

While it's technically not a 'tweak value':
Might I suggest making it a scalar? ie. if above this level, it will hurt you n-times more.
Or alternatively, combine it with the more you do it, the more it hurts you (within a timeframe)

For instance:
If above unfriendly with Zirax, and attacking one of their members, you will be slapped with the value (-0.3) times 2 (Or whatever is reasonable).
If repeating the same action within a timeframe (for instance 5 minutes), you will be slapped with the value (-0.3) times 3, etc.
It can potentially be combined with a 'dropoff point', like if you do this action more than n-times in the time-interval, it will slap you down to 'unfriendly'. (For instance if you've commited 10 crimes that are still active, it will slap you down to unfriendly, regardless of your current level)

I'd recommend doing it in a log-fashion, so when you do any rep-related event, it gets added 'type', 'who', 'timestamp', and depending on the type, it can have different time-frame options (how long before you are 'forgiven' for doing that thing.. ie. not increasingly punished with the times 3, 4, etc)

But its current iteration is, imo, too easy to mess up with, and loose hours/... of efforts, by a missclick

I feel the values overall are sensible, although I'd increase the punishment for 'attacking a member' (While tweaking the 'instant set to unfriendly/..' mechanic, as described above.)


(A cool bonus to this system would be having the AI become temporarily hostile to the player, like a temp-wanted system. This provides gameplay, aswell as makes the player actively aware of what is going on)

(As an alternative to time-to-pass before forgiven, it could be needing to exit the area it was committed in. That might be a better mechanic tbh)

(Also, is it intentional, that some NPCs ignore that you shoot them? And that turrets are completely fine with it? I'd think they'd locally aggro on the player, if engaged)

 

Have not tried it out enough yet, so current thoughts for changes:

Main change could be to not drop to a "level" (Honored, Friendly, etc.) but loose points, so -3000 for a severe one, like killing a NCP/Drone.
Exception could be destroying a core, then become Hostile.
Also only attacked ones responds and attack back, but no levels lost.
It is to remove something from a container that should give -RP, not just use "F" to look.
The Talon Tribalsacks could be a container object and not shift+F loot-able.
Spawning/building a vessel could be as using vessel in a territory.
Creating a building could require Honored, else -5000.

Leveling is mainly done through killing prey and/or predators, along with missions.
So could be that in their territories so are there a higher spawn rate, relative to difficulty (and/or a starter option).

 

I find the point changes a little to high and fast. And the base amount a little to close to a razor's edge; a wider base setting would give a little more room to maneuver before falling into someone's auto-enemy camp.
With present settings, doing normal required activities in the beginning almost assure getting on the wrong side of factions to quickly.

 

I think overall the gain in faction standing is a bit too fast, however, the loss of standing is way too sudden. I was honored with the Zirax, accidentally shot one of their drones as I attempted to take down an alien POI and boom, hostile. I can understand them taking some offense to that but Jeez, accidents happen. Took me an hour of murdering Talon to get the standing back up to neutral.

 

Is plant harvesting still dropping you to unfriendly immediately?

Everything I've encountered seems OK except that previously you'd pick one fruit and everyone would immediately start trying to kill you, at least with polaris.

The only other problem I ran into is that while trying to defend the TOP Brewery it's almost impossible to avoid damaging something. Previously that was causing Polaris to immediately go unfriendly or hostile and start trying to kill you as you are trying to defend their base from a massive onslaught.


As for speed, it was taking me forever to get my Polaris standing back to friendly until I realized I could do repeatable quests.

 

Ok, here's the plantpick situation that was bothering me:

I was on a polaris station in its own sector. I think it was the MALO station design. I tried picking a berry from a decorative plant pot to see what the reaction would be (wanted to see how nuanced the handling was). Polaris immediately went unfriendly and everyone started trying to kill me. BERRY PICKER!!! DIE!!! Then my CV parked outside started blasting away at the generator, which didn't take long to destroy since it was only protected by regular glass windows from where the CV was.

So I got out of the station alive and eventually got my standing back by killing zirax and doing missions. But of course the station is still broken and I can't fix it short of cheats.

Essentially, right now, crime seems like too much of an all-or-nothing thing.

Simplest solution: standing loss based on value of stolen item which means picking one plant or stealing a vegetable from a fridge would tick people off but not result in a death sentence unless you were already on their bad side. Stealing several vegetables would eventually get you shot. Stealing a T2 Repair Bay or Heavy Armor would have a massive standing loss that would make you KoS immediately.

More complicated solution: Add the concept of paying a fine. You get instant standing loss from stealing something, which could be small if it's just a vegetable, but you accumulate a fine. After a short grace period, every n elapsed period you don't pay the fine results in more standing loss. Then an unpaid fine for stealing a vegetable would eventually make you a KoS fugitive if you kept ignoring it and didn't constantly do anything else to gain reputatation.

In any case I'm not sure if instant KoS is the best solution to stealing things from containers or picking plants because it results in absurd overreactions to stuff that nobody would realistically want to kill you for.

 

I want a YES - NO popup confirm for action like picking up plants open a cargobox that warns you that that action will drop you from honored to neutral.
Are you sure? Performing this action will drop you to xxx
YES - NO
That red warning on top will not stop you from doing that action. Sometimes i have trader and a container next to it or behind it and can missclick and drop reputation to zero.

 

Maybe just in the case if you are honored

*if honored* show popup

 

I'm an old X3 player the rep gain and loss was a lot slower then EGS. I always thought that was way too slow. But in here to go to war over a simple apple being picked is just OTT. I want warnings! Keep doing this and this is going to happen. Heck it's not even 3 strikes and your out.

Granted rep loss should be high for killing one of them but not a simple act of picking fruit. Locks only keep honest people honest. So give us a chance to shoot the lock off first on chests then you get busted for stealing. That would be a large loss not as much as killing one of them.

Lower the rep gain / loss but add more quest for rep gains. It really does need to be more balanced.

 

(In an ideal world, you would have to be caught, to suffer a rep-loss.
ie. if you are not seen, you are good.
And if you are seen, but manage to kill your way out of it, before it is reported (by some manner, for instance through a turret/camera), you are good.)

 

If it only happens when you're Friendly or Honored then it would only be the first time you opened the container. After that you'd already be on the bad list and you could go nuts looting containers.

Not sure it's really that necessary since it's not too hard to get your standing back, but it doesn't have to be constant confirmation popups.

 

That depends on adding a stealth concept to the game which I've been told has been talked about but not sure if it's on the roadmap or what. It's a good thing to bring up if stealth is added.

 

imo nothing should immediately drop your status to unfriendly/hostile/neutral, it should only add/subtract points. that way an accident doesn't suddenly make hours of work go away. also the gaining of status is about right for me, the loss of status is way to harsh.

 

Only a harsh response by the Faction keep's you from doing it again, even by accident.

 

Eh.

It’s close, we just need some more options for gaining favor.

Talons : Add rep for killing ALN faction in Talon territory.

Polaris: Add small rep gain for buying their stuff

Zirax: Might be alright as-is, hard to say.