PLZ Retest and Re-Report HV Behavior when Cargo added under Weight & Volume

Discussion in 'Fixed (Read Only)' started by JetsetUK, Feb 6, 2019.

  1. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    I have tested the MERLIN provided here, and i cannot see any "side tilt"

    When filling the front container array (red) with up to 50 ton, the MERLIN is tilting to the front - as would expected. If i do the same whith the Harvesting-container array (blue) it balances out again.

    20190209132357_1.jpg

    20190209132104_1.jpg

    So unless there is a savegame which is showing a side-tilt, i cannot reproduce the issue at the moment.
     
    #21
  2. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    #22
  3. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    Thx. - but i still cannot see any tilting to any side i am afraid. Seems to be perfectly centered
    20190209142134_1.jpg

    20190209142413_1.jpg
     
    #23
  4. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    EDIT: I have just noticed from the screenshots you put that I may well have the answer as to the differing versions of events between my experience and yours... Top left of the shots show you are in ver. 9.4 something... and I am playing in the Stable branch - 9.3 something... so it's quite possible from that alone that my, and krazzykid2006's, Mileage May Vary... o_O I may not be in the Dev team, but I used to be a Quality Engineer and then later a System Administrator in IT, and surely in trying to trace a root cause for something you try to set up the environment in exactly the same manner as the person having the issue so that it fully replicates their experience, or else it's results would be null and void as then you would not be replicating the full surroundings of the fault they have?

    Thanks for the work so far @Hummel-o-War ... but I have a question... what could be making this not work in either my save game, or the version that @krazzykid2006 had... as he also found that the HV tilted forward and to the right... exactly the same symptoms I have?

    I have just been back into that session... Here's the link to a series of screenies I grabbed... each set of 4 screenies shows the effects of adding 1 Stack of Iron, then 2, then 3 and then the remainder of the Volume space which is 600 and something blocks, sorry forgot to make a note and my memory isn't great... there's an odd photo in there, as I wished to show the Artificial Horizon I built on the front for the series taken against the backdrop of some Base blocks so the tilt could be easily seen, and to show that it was equal blocks on each "wing" of it... As you can see, I have now also built a platform to test in the interests of "Science" so it starts on a completely level surface. Ride height is set to 3.00 metres throughout.

    Also apparent in the game, but not in these pictures, throughout is the sound of the Thrusters countering the tendancy of the HV to slide off to the right as the tilt comes into effect... they give the sound of them being on idle with nothing in the CC, then just scream on full power even after gravity wins with a full load and the HV slides off and makes a graceful turn on to it's back as it leaves the pad...

    Link to zip of the screen grabs - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JLvfZGIAqCTlnSg2UkMS313Ei5oe4FeX
     
    #24
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
  5. Hummel-o-War

    Hummel-o-War Administrator Staff Member Community Manager

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    did you check if this happens with the current EXP still? If not, maybe wait for the Public release and re-test and lets start over if this happens there again as i could not make it behave or tip over or anything like shown in the screen (mass/vol of course activated)

    20190210123414_1.jpg
     
    #25
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  6. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    Nope not yet @Hummel-o-War I was waiting for the Release candidate, but yeah, will happily wait for that as it shouldn't be too long now I'm guessing... a couple of peeps who did have this issue in 9.3 have reported their designs no longer have similar problems in 9.4, so I'll keep my fingers crossed... thanks for the Help... :)
     
    #26
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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 13, 2019
  8. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Hi @Hummel-o-War

    I'm having a similar issue with a custom-built HV. I've added many cargo extensions symmetrically, yet the HV tilts hugely to the right when I try to take off. It was previously ok, I just added about 12 more extension to the rear (I'd left room for this when I added the rear two hover engines) and thrown in some items, a couple were heavy, and my HV is no longer flyable.

    Please examine this saved game, it's a fresh 9.4 start.

    Hopefully this helps. The HV is mostly perfectly symmetrical, other than having a Fridge one side and a Wireless Controller the other, the cargo extensions are perfectly symmetrical. I was a little rear heavy when loaded prior to my adding the two rear hover engines - it just had four originally - but adding these saw it hover perfectly, until I added the additional extensions and loaded it up. It drove fine at the prior full weight capacity before adding the final six extensions.

    I don't think I'm missing anything obvious, the HV is heavily loaded for sure, but it hovers just fine if I hold "o" to keep it level. So, the six T1 Hover Engines can lift it just fine, it just tilts if I let go of "o".

    Scoob.
     
    #28
  9. I just tried recreating this problem in a brand new game started in B2275 and it's no longer reproducible IF you start a new game.

    If I go back to my saves started in 9.2.0 B2163 and earlier then the issue persists again. It seems like it's something that was fixed at some point but only applies to new games. 9.2.0 isn't an old game by any means though.
     
    #29
    JetsetUK likes this.
  10. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Was it fixed in the recent Hotfix perhaps? My game was started in the main branch 9.4 update and my HV's are wonky when heavily loaded.

    I played about a little more last night with the issue - after applying the hotfix, no change - finding that fitting four T2 Hover Engines - in addition to the existing six T1's - "sorted" the issue. However, when I loaded the new design up even more it exhibited the same problem.

    Why the Hover Engines on the Left side of the HV work and those on the Right side fail is the question. If the HV was simply too heavy, it shouldn't be able to hover at all - it's like the "too heavy" is only applying to those right side Hovers...which is weird. I've noticed at moderate load, i.e. the HV is well within its weight limits and seems to drive just fine, a very slight tilt to the right can still be observed when on flat terrain / blocks. So, the balance of the HV is compromised even then.

    Hopefully the save I've submitted allows the issue to be reproduced - it certainly does for me and my game is totally vanilla and was, as mentioned, a fresh 9.4 Survival start.

    Scoob.
     
    #30
  11. JetsetUK

    JetsetUK Ensign

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    @Hummel-o-War I went into 9.4 and made a new Test environment in a Survival game, first thing I did after it went to Release Candidate... I brought in the HV and tested and it no longer tilted to the left when loaded down... so yeah, something in the 9.4 update either Experimental or Release has fixed the tilt issue... it does still sag a little, and drops it nose a bit too, but given the C of M and the projected C of G of the craft it was expected behavior as the C of G when loaded was forward of the C of M, or the other way round - Blue ball was in front of the Yellow one...

    Thanks again for your help with the issue @krazzykid2006 :)
     
    #31
  12. Welderold

    Welderold Lieutenant

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    This is NOT fixed. I just start new game (current stable release) and trying build "cargo hv". When it is empty it was balanced but when put 2x40t ore its tilt to right (all containers and other is symmetrical) . Center of mass is about 1 block right from centerline.
     
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  13. Muttley

    Muttley Ensign

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    This Was Not fixed, just tested on 9.6, and yes you can reproduce any time, don't understand why this post it's tagged as "Currently not reproducible".

    Below my test HV completely even distribution of the weight, and don't matter if you have two identical and symmetrical container or just one, the hover vehicle will always bank on the RIGHT side and lean forward when loaded with a working "Container Controller".

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1686742462

    I tested also with more hover engines and changes almost nothing.

    PLEASE FIX THIS BUG

    Here the miner I was testing that let me notice the BUG
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1686745065
    Same identical behaviour of the test vehicle
     
    #33
  14. TGRF_Trainer

    TGRF_Trainer Commander

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    Is there any way to flag this thread as incorrectly tagged? The problem is very much reproducable. It just happened on my brand new Alpha 10 start. I can't use my HV because of it. It tilts so badly I can't even fly it straight. But with the current tag, I doubt anyone is going to look at this thread twice.

    @Hummel-o-War Can we please look into this again? I would be happy to share my save game if necessary. I'm using a perfectly symetrical HV, which is balanced with the cargo empty (except for an unexplainable SLIGHT tilt to the left), but when I load it up with ore, it tilts so far to the right that it is unusable.

    Also Hummel, if you can't reproduce the problem, make sure you are actually in the cockpit. The center of mass doesn't show any problem.
     
    #34
  15. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    This problem was a major issue for me for several versions, however, I've not experienced it in a while now - I'm not exactly sure which version fixed it for me, certainly one of the 10.x's though.

    I'm building my HV's the same as always, with symmetrical cargo extensions and, other than a slight lean to the rear - which is expected due to weight distribution - they've been 100% fine. I've built numerous HV's this way, and even brought it some via BP which had the problem previously, but all have been fine.

    I believe @TGRF_Trainer if he says he's still experiencing it, as not that long ago I was experiencing it when others were not. Can you upload a save (assuming you're single player) and I'll give it a try.

    Note: I've done nothing special during this time, just let the game update (Exp. branch) and my config file is vanilla.

    Scoob.
     
    #35
  16. TGRF_Trainer

    TGRF_Trainer Commander

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    @Scoob

    I've actually never uploaded a save before, so let me know if I'm doing it wrong.

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1m5x6xN0_rjkZZRHFWmxwuvVEqmz44TCQ?usp=sharing

    This is the first time I've experienced this issue. I've made several HVs since 9.4 (when I bought the game), and this is the only one so far which has had the problem. The HV in question is the small C1T05 HMV.

    I did spawn the same HV in creative mode to try and fix the problem (was unable to with more hovers), and the only thing I noticed was that the center of mass marker was way below the HV. Still centered, just way below it for some reason.
     
    #36
  17. Vermillion

    Vermillion Rear Admiral

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    While overhauling my old HVs i've noticed the same problem. All of mine will rapidly tilt to the front left and hoon off if the auto-brake is off.
    This is in creative mode with the mass/volume turned off (because you can't turn it on *glares*) so the only thing affecting balance is the ship's build. And while the center of mass isn't right on the spot on some, in some cases it's in the opposite direction that it tilts. CoM may be back or forward a bit; once I even had it a bit on the right side. The HV always goes forward and left though, even though it's in the opposite direction that it's balanced.
     
    #37
  18. TGRF_Trainer

    TGRF_Trainer Commander

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    Well at the moment Empyrion is unplayable for me. HVs are largely unusable. I can somewhat mitigate the problem by having two cargo containers, mirroring each other on either side, but that's not what I want. I want one big Ore container. With two, I have to switch between the two and shuffle things around to manage weight. And besides, with two containers, the problem STILL exists, although on a much lesser (and workable) degree.

    Some interesting notes: Despite my earlier claim that the CoM does not shift, it does. At least during my latest testing. However, it is shifted nowhere near enough to suggest the amount of tilt the HV is experiencing. The HV tilts violently, and is only stopped by the thrusters (not hovers) touching the ground.

    Also, the brake seems to have a problem. If I hold the O key to level the HV out, the ship ALWAYS starts moving. It moves exactly the same as it does when you don't have thrusters. It just starts drifting in a certain direction. This problem can be fixed by moving the HV over water (which is perfectly flat). But on ground, with the brake on, the HV drifted AWAY from the water, uphill. With the brake off, it drifted towards the water, downhill.

    And finally, while Vermillion and I seem to have the same problem, my HVs always tilt BACK and to the RIGHT. This is the exact opposite of what his HVs do.

    @Hummel-o-War This bug has rendered Empyrion unplayable for me. I would be happy to assemble a showcase save for you with several HVs. I can also record video of the issue if you cannot reproduce it. Can we please give this bug another look?
     
    #38
  19. Scoob

    Scoob Rear Admiral

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    Hi TGRF_Trainer,

    Sorry, I missed your post.

    What you've uploaded doesn't appear to be a save - or google drive is being screwy for me.

    To upload a save, go to your "Empyrion - Galactic Survival" folder, then "Saves" then "Games" and copy the folder with the name of your game. I.e. I called my current game "A10.0.0 2446" for the version and build number when I started. So, I pick the "A10.0.0 2446" folder, zip it up and upload it. Note: I take regular in-game backups, so I have other saves called "A10.0.0 2446-190710-2128" that last bit being the data and timestamp of the backup.

    Note: I did submit saves of this bug occurring - 100% consistent recreation for me - and it's been loaded by the devs and they've said "it's fine for them". I can only assume they were perhaps using a slightly different version of the game or something. Regardless, they loaded my save and didn't experience the issue, yet for me it was 100% consistent at the time.

    Still not had the bug occur again yet since A10 and I've built a few HV's.

    Note 2: The only way I could work-around this bug when it did occur was to MASSIVELY over-engineer the number of hover engines. I.e. the HV would lift up with a perfectly reasonable number of hover engines, but it's then drop to one side and skid uncontrollably, due to ALL the weight being on one side. Really, if there was legitimately too much weight, the HV should never have been able to get off the ground, yet it did. This is a very weird bug.

    Scoob.
     
    #39
  20. TGRF_Trainer

    TGRF_Trainer Commander

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    Well... I appear to have fixed the problem. Open steam, go to Empyrion, right click on the game in the side bar, properties, local files on the top, and verify integrity. Already-built HVs still exhibit the problem, but I've built two new simple HVs and they have no side tilt.

    If Hummel has tested your saves, so you're both on the same save with the same craft, and he has no problems, then it stands to reason it's a local file problem. So for some reason, some file somewhere gets tweaked and the weight system goes haywire. This likely happens during updates. Verifying the integrity of the files (as far as I can tell) double checks all of the game files to make sure they are in line, so it makes sense that it fixed the problem.

    Let me know if this fixes it for you. I haven't done any extensive testing yet - just the two HVs.

    ~TGRF.

    P.S. About the save game - I'm not sure. It's pointing at my save game. I got it using what you outlined, so...
     
    #40

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