I would gladly see proof of that. Up to now I was under the impression that ship-vs-ship fights ( PvP ) directed players to build very similar ships for obvious reasons : who would willfully design something disadvantageous compared to the other "fighters" ? And that has been mentioned many times, and we know it has nothing to do with "roleplaying" if "combat" is the sole design objective. As for "soft limit" CPU is pretty hard towards anything big, regardless of device combinations.
I'm talking about exactly that. By soft I mean the number of rocket launchers is not strictly set, but as you add more rocket launchers you are limited by what other things, say thrusters or laser turrets, you are willing to give up to pay for them (in CPU). Differences in intended use for a ship creates differences in optimal number of rocket launchers (and ship designs) in this context. If it is a hard limit, by which I mean "you can have 6 rocket turrets" or whatever, the optimum number is usually just the maximum allowed. So there is little variety or creativity in PvP design. Of course, CPU in Empyrion V11 only partially implements this approach. We are sort of stuck with both models atm, which isn't ideal.
So far, CPU usage by weapons is an afterthought. For whatever reason, thrusters seem to be the main focus of CPU usage (which is kind of silly given that there are already a number of ways to balance thrusters (thrust/area, thrust/volume, TWR, thrust/power).
The biggest complaint I keep seeing is the fact the extenders are so hard to find, tier 3. I think a patch to change that, to make that not so tedious, there are people raiding 2 and 3 planets and wiping all the POIs of planet and still not finding what they need. That seems to be the biggest complaint about CPU itself, followed by, each tier doesnt have enough points, but if the first issue there could be corrected, it would go along way towards settling some of the playerbase. Maybe a solution like, make it part of the drone base loot for the starter planets moon, or, make it build-able just very expensive, or, add a mission to the system, where it is the reward. No one likes searching for 3 real days to not actually find anything useful.
I totally agree. While I'd still love thrusters to be linked to CPU or power, I think they shouldn't be the main focus. Weapons, shields, mining etc absolutely should be. They should all cost a LOT more CPU (or power, if CPU isn't being used).
Yet another thread providing a solution being shot down by those with a blind devotion to CPU claiming it does what it does not do while not providing an actual reason why a solution does not work. CPU is bland, generic and does not bring what its supposed to bring. Any CPU total means I can build any mix of any type of ship that meets it. No specialization at all. So long, thanks for all the fish. A failed system ruining the fun of the game which does not even do what it was supposed to do...make a few very loud group of players happy by forcing everyone to use small, horrible ships to create some sense of what? Why force everyone to use the kind of things that only YOU want them to use when YOU can already CHOOSE TO DO THAT. Open game in a genre where CHOICE is everything, made into the OPPOSITE. Name one other survival game that did this insanity...
I think you're being needlessly combative in parts of your post, though I share and feel your pain at the current state of the feature. As Hummel recently appeared to state they won't be making further significant changes to CPU, I'm inclined to agree. *sigh* We agree CPU isn't currently helping much with specialisation. But I don't think you understand what some other people have been suggesting. If there's caps on how many laser and rocket turrets you have (say 4 each), everybody will always make a ship that has the max of both. If there's an overall cap, sort of like a currency (what CPU should be), you might have the same number of total turrets, but you can choose to put all (say 8) laser or all rockets (8). So there is two very different but powerful ships you can build. More freedom. With the first system, you theoretically just not add rockets and have only 4 laser, but why would anybody ever build a needlessly weak ship? Almost everyone here doesn't want the current implementation of CPU to be the final system. Almost nobody wants to get rid of big ships that I know of. No-one I've seen talking here is blindly devoted to CPU. Eleon doesn't sound like they're going to undo CPU, or make the changes we're all asking for. We might need to focus now on convincing them to allow server-managers/end-users more control - both being able to easily turn it off, and configuring how it works in much more detail (*cough* tiers).
Folks, I've got to ask, because this is turning into something of an Elephant in the Room here. Do we even have a consensus on what "Specialization" means in terms of Empyrion? I keep seeing a lot of folks throwing this word around, and I can't help but think it's taken on a life and meaning of its own here. Here's my though on what "Specialization" means, as it relates to Empyrion: A "Specialized" combat ship is going to feature weapons, be they manually targeted or turreted, and probably mix of both. It's going to have more armor than other ships, multiple layers worth. It's not going to have refrigerators, constructors, bathrooms, or much in the line of cargo storage - maybe a couple cargo boxes at most. A "Specialized" Freighter would likely be made mostly of cargo extenders, have a massive cargo capacity, few or no weapons, not much in the line of "creature comforts", and some of the largest engines available to move its mass. A "Specialized" Mining ship is going to have mining lasers, at least 3, probably quite a few more, be mostly made of cargo extenders, maybe carry a Constructor or two for turning Ore into Ingots while it works, might have a bathroom, fridge and food processor - as mining can be a lengthy process. A "Specialized" Colony Ship is going to have some weaponry, likely in the form of Sentry Guns on the outer hull, Constructors, Storage, some creature comforts, multiple fridges, medical devices, Advanced Constructors, and a fair bit of storage, WiFi, and a reasonable amount of thrust, in the event of high-G colonization. I'd almost call this "Specialized in Multi-role", except it isn't multi-role, just the most "flexible". I can't think of much more you could really "Specialize" in, as there really are only so many things you can actually do in-game - fight or build or trade in materials. Anything not conforming to these particular functions is either a Multi-Role craft or Pleasure Craft, and isn't particularly "Specialized". So what is it that you're calling "Specialized"? Because I've not had any issues building Combat Ships, Cargo Ships, Mining Ships or Colony Ships with Mass/Volume and CPU enabled. Granted, I'm not playing PvP, so I don't really need thick sandwiches of alternating layers of Xeno Steel and Combat Steel with air gaps to inflate a size 8 ship to size 36. The AI is only so good after all. And perhaps, most importantly, a question directly for the Devs: What is your definition of "Specialized"?
Its deserved. There are a few people going into every thread about CPU and are doing the same thing. Dismissing everyone. People like that destroy games and communities. They dont refute anything, they dont move ideas forward, they just try to shut people down. And do you really think that would happen if players actually stuck together, and worked together? Nope. Games have made vast changes during Alpha's based on community feedback...hell, they went and gutted mining/gathering based on just a few people, posting constantly about how its "grind" and they dont like it...there were many many more stating that it was part of the core of the game but because they did not stick together, got drowned about by the vocal minority. Oh I understand, just look at my posts on the topic in other threads. This thread needed someone to speak up for the OP because this garbage with people posting just to dismiss needs to stop, it does not help anyone or the game at all. Check my post on an actual fix. Since they are going to keep CPU in no matter what, lets actually fix it in a way everyone can accept it. My idea does this while also making it so everyone will actually USE CPU, removing the other problem the CPU system creates, only some people using it and making the Workshop a clusterf*** with CPU and non-CPU ships being mixed in the same categories.
Apparently specialization means a T1 driller that can only go 24m/s max speed when unloaded and has no storage space for the ore it's intended to mine. Just look at some of their "specialized" blueprints to see what I mean. Specifically the T1 Rockcharger I wasted materials on this morning and had to deconstruct for only 33% of my materials back (thanks survival tool). I knew I shouldn't have trusted their "specialization" and tried it myself in creative first though, so my bad. It has container extensions to go with the ore controller and they aren't even touching it! Specialized, lol. A miner that's not good at mining and hauling it back to base isn't much of a specialized vessel, IMO. And no, I'm not ripping on one prefab and singling it out. There are issues with quite a few of the specialized prefabs. Try some of them yourself. Try some miners and see how they behave full vs empty. Try some warp vessel and see the same.... (I'm speaking about with Volume and Mass also activated by the way.)
I don't think I've used a Prefab since somewhere around 8.4, when I first picked up Empyrion and hadn't figured out how to build much of anything. Pretty sure my first "base" was made of 12 wooden blocks rather badly placed, and with no floor. These days, if I build it, I build it myself, and I'd like to think I'm at least half decent at it.
I suspect it would be handy to put things into percentages. This way, when you/folks say "not much cargo" it can perhaps be translated into a percentage of blocks, volume, mass and/or CPU.
It had been much longer than that for me. I typically build everything myself. Still, with all the issues with the new mechanics I thought I would give their "specialization" a try. It did not impress at all. And let's be real, those prefabs should be the ideal embodiment of specialization. After all, the developers picked them specifically for that task. Quite a few of them fail miserably at their specialized tasks. Hell, one of them they even call a hypercycle and it only goes 22m/s. Hahaha, funny. (yes, it's a starter vessel, but still.....) I did a time trial with it vs the motorbike. The motorbike won in speed in distances over 150m (flat ground).
Almost no Cargo: 50-1000 mass units Very Little Cargo: 1000-2500 mass units A Little Cargo: 2500-4000 mass units. Some Cargo: 4000-7500 mass units Cargo: 7500-9000 mass units A Good Bit of Cargo: 9000-12000 mass units. A lot of Cargo: 12000-25000 mass units. A Whole Lot of Cargo: 25,000-50,000 mass units. A Cubic @load of Cargo: 50,000+ mass units. That better?
You accuse others of doing exactly what you do. To summarize, others do not discuss, they impose their ideas. You do the same, you simply attack them without putting forward any arguments. You say that the CPU system does not push for specialization and no more. Indeed it's always possible to make multirole ships. But multirole ships will always be less efficient than a specialized vessel in a domain. Let's take the case of the constructor who costs 2000 points. A tier 1 multirole SV with a constructor will be disavantaged against a tier 1 SV without in combat situation. This one will have 2-3 times more weapons, do the math. Moreover, for the critics of the CPU, Eleon did not impose this system to everyone. You can still create your own server without. Then why does it bother you so much? Unless you're trying to impose your point of view to everyone ? The new flight model combined with CPU restrictions has completely eliminated the presence of totally irrelevant ship that made players unbeatable in PVP. Some players just want the game to stay unbalanced because it gives them so much advantage on other players. It's an extremely toxic gameplay. Most new builds made by notorious creators are CPU compliant. CPU compliant ships are compatible in all case. But the new ultra rare and non craftable ressources makes them impossible to build. So players and creators are both extremely frustrated by this situation.
I agree with the rest of your post, but not on this part. If players have an advantage on others based on how they build their ship, the other players also have that option, so it becomes a question of choice. If everyone can benefit from the same "advantage" then it is not an advantage anymore and things become "balanced". Do you agree ? Then the problem might not be "ship design". Could it be related to something else like allowing high-level players to grief low-level players, for example ?
Ground Repulsor Engines are still broken in the public version. They're too slow and can't turn properly. It could be made faster with thrusters, but then it wouldn't unlock at level 1 like it had to.
Yes, they broke them with 10.6/11 and still have not fixed the most basic engines in the game the ones nearly everybody uses first. It has been weeks, what gives? It is one of the first touchpoints to what makes this game special, ships, and building and it is broken and still broken. Part of my disillusion with the current state of the game.
Ground repulsors are broken? Really? I can't say I've ever noticed. They seem to work just fine for me. They even travel over water, which I've heard many a time they're not supposed to, but they do.
If a person is saying something doesnt work or wont work by attacking part of an idea incorrectly, yes they are just dismissing. And pointing that out does not make you, like them. I say it? Even those that WANT CPU is saying it. They say the numbers are way too high... Baseless attacks. And again. No actual refute to my idea. This community has turned into disruptive trolls not even trying to find solutions to actual problems... I agree, and I never once argued for free reign on all servers. But I thank you for the character assassination attempt in a post that never once actually even tries to refute my suggestion...once again, the angry hate mod jumps into a thread to attack those that try to suggest ways to improve the game just to attack THEM and not even try to dissect IDEAS. Its an extremely toxic community here.
